Had Enough

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Posts by Had Enough

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  48

  Major network calls for official investigation

  by ozziepost in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in providing damning evidence of a massive cover-up of criminal activities by its members, channel nine has called for an "official investigation into the wts".

  a judge of the supreme court has also expressed "i am surprised that the police have not taken action against the church authorities.

  i hope they will do so.

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  Had Enough

  "Calls are coming in thick and fast here.. all boads well for a follow up."

  YEAH !!!!! again Ozzie

  Bring on part 2 !!!!

  Had Enough
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  48

  Major network calls for official investigation

  by ozziepost in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in providing damning evidence of a massive cover-up of criminal activities by its members, channel nine has called for an "official investigation into the wts".

  a judge of the supreme court has also expressed "i am surprised that the police have not taken action against the church authorities.

  i hope they will do so.

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  Had Enough

  Hi Ozzie:

  Thanks for filling us in and showing just how much the JWs live up to their boast of how they are united in their policies and beliefs the world over.

  I like this statement:

  The Supreme Court judge expressed his wish that the police investigate wilful obstruction of the civil authorities and the network say it's "time that governments cracked down on this organisation. They're outlaws, having placed themselves outside the law."

  And isn't it so typical of the JWs to show their support for the abuser and the elders and cast aside the victim when she/he cries out for help and justice.

  Now I hope someone has this on tape and it is compatable with our video systems in this part of the world...or that someone, not technically challenged, can make it compatible.

  Thanks to Stephanus also for the link...there's alot of other great articles there too.

  Had Enough
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  24

  Vicki Boer trial: Friday Sept 20

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some notes from the vicki boer trial today (friday).

  the morning was taken up by testimony and cross examination of dr. silver, an expert witness in psychiatry called by watchtower.

  the basic thrust of his testimony was to minimize the trauma experienced by vicki during the four different interogations by the elders and confrontations with her abuser.

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  Had Enough

  Ah yes Expat..now that you've jogged my memory cells....you're right that was him

  Had Enough
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  24

  Vicki Boer trial: Friday Sept 20

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some notes from the vicki boer trial today (friday).

  the morning was taken up by testimony and cross examination of dr. silver, an expert witness in psychiatry called by watchtower.

  the basic thrust of his testimony was to minimize the trauma experienced by vicki during the four different interogations by the elders and confrontations with her abuser.

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  Had Enough

  Lady Lee:

  I'm beginning to wish I was an called as an expert witness on the effects of abuse. Some of these folks are missing the points

  That's exactly what a couple of us remarked about after the trial yesterday. Vicki did well in explaining her feelings about the treatment due to WTS policy, but it sure could have used some backup and corroboration from others who have experienced the exact same re-abuse in a judicial committee.

  These men making the rules seem to have no concept of the damage they have done. Especially when they try to back up their policies with opinions of a yokel like Dr. Silver who admitted that his "methods are different from most other doctors".

  I must say though at one point he did say he agreed with Dr. Awod in that he "wouldn't have treated Vicki as the elders did".

  Had Enough
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  24

  Vicki Boer trial: Friday Sept 20

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some notes from the vicki boer trial today (friday).

  the morning was taken up by testimony and cross examination of dr. silver, an expert witness in psychiatry called by watchtower.

  the basic thrust of his testimony was to minimize the trauma experienced by vicki during the four different interogations by the elders and confrontations with her abuser.

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  Had Enough

  Hi Expat:

  Yes...Didur is the correct spelling according to correspondence I've read from someone who knows him personally.

  And yes, Expat had bladder problems yesterday LOL..in fact we all did...several times at the Columbo-type antics of Mr. Mark in getting a point across.

  Had Enough
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  24

  Vicki Boer trial: Friday Sept 20

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some notes from the vicki boer trial today (friday).

  the morning was taken up by testimony and cross examination of dr. silver, an expert witness in psychiatry called by watchtower.

  the basic thrust of his testimony was to minimize the trauma experienced by vicki during the four different interogations by the elders and confrontations with her abuser.

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  Had Enough

  I was preparing my last post when Expat added his remarks about Didur's remarks about Frank Toth. He squirmed and said something like...Frank..uh Mr. Toth?..no I don't recall him...then later made the remark about the traffic dept.

  But I wonder why the Defence Councel tried so hard to convince the judge that his testimony should not be allowed. Didur flatly denied ever talking to Frank or having anykind of exchange with him...so it will be interesting to see what Frank has to offer and what the WTS comes up with over the weekend.

  Had Enough
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  24

  Vicki Boer trial: Friday Sept 20

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some notes from the vicki boer trial today (friday).

  the morning was taken up by testimony and cross examination of dr. silver, an expert witness in psychiatry called by watchtower.

  the basic thrust of his testimony was to minimize the trauma experienced by vicki during the four different interogations by the elders and confrontations with her abuser.

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  Had Enough

  Dr. Silver's testimony which took up most of the day, was specifically intended by the WTS to dismiss Dr. Awod's previous testimony of how, making Vicki re-tell the details of her abuse in front of her father, and to several different men, at several different occasions was damaging to her emotional and mental healing process.

  I agree with Expat, that Mr. Mark's cross examination of this so-called doctor was quite successful in showing up his attempts to appear caring and concerned for Vicki for what they really were....cold and callous.

  Dr. Silver tried to push the idea that:

  • her problems now, stemmed from early childhood "difficulities" such as feeling like an outsider from about Gr.3 on not participating in things like the anthem and from parties later on.
  • a stifling lifestyle being raised as a JW
  • then her disfunctional family-life, her father's drinking problem, contributed to it too
  • she acted out her conflicts by rebelling - asserting her freedom (by moving out)

  One of the most damaging (to himself imho) parts of his testimony was his insistence that Vicki had "repetitive compulsion".

  He explained "this is an unconscious process or way of resolving bad experiences, the opposite of one who supresses feelings". He said "Vicki compulsively 'needed' to repeat her story over and over again because for someone with this disorder, repetition takes away the severity of the abuse. Talking about it was helpful." He couldn't agree with Dr. Awod's evaluation that Vicki's re-telling of the details was a trauma equal to being re-abused.

  This doctor claims to understand many different religious cultures like the JWs, Mormons, Jews and Catholics, but he obviously had no idea how devastating judicial committees can be especially for someone who has suffered child abuse. Dr. Silver's belief was that Vicki was strong-willed and rebellious referring to the time she called herself the "black sheep of the family", and that if she didn't want to participate in the elders' meetings, she wouldn't have attended. I wanted to scream out to him....She had no choice!! When you're raised to believe that elders are your spritual leaders directed by God, you do as you are told or you are disobeying God's directives. Mr. Mark very effectively made Dr. Silver agree that there is an "inequality of position between elder and victim, and just because she didn't refuse to meet doesn't mean she went willingly".

  Silver admitted he had never asked Vicki how she felt about being made to meet with the elders.

  But an important note is the contradictions in his statements about his evaluation that Vicki's re-telling of the abuse details, such as:

  In one breath he said " he felt that the "repetition compulsion would cause her to go back to meetings with the elders and her parents to discuss the abuse, as a way of working through her feelings". Then later he admitted that "re-telling would be traumatic, similar to recalling the abuse from certain triggers such as hearing footsteps or heavy-breathing reminding her of her father's abuse" and when asked by Mr. Mark if not having to re-tell, over and over, the details of her abuse, would have helped in healing, Dr. Silver admitted that several re-tellings fanned the flames and added to the trauma".

  So which is it...therapeutic or traumatic?

  His constant references to her "compulsion" to talk about the details as though she enjoyed talking about it, visibly upset Vicki and reduced her to tears. So I ask: And this was the "strong-willed, rebellious woman who was asserting her freedom" that he described? I think it was all Scott could do to hold himself back from jumping up and throttling this man(?). One lady in the audience told me she had gone to him once for therapy and found him uncaring to the effects the WTS' treatment had on her.

  Expat's description from memory of John Didur's testimony is very good. We both noticed his several references to the fact that he told the Shelburne elders to follow the July 88 BOE letter and report the abuse. Its so very interesting to hear all the conflicting testimonies about who said what to whom about whose responsibility it was. He sure tried to make it clear that he did his part...like the WTS trying to protect their collective butts. Even when asked by Mr. Mark, if he personally reported the abuse 'forthwith' when he first heard of it, Mr. Didur answered that he "told the Shelburne elder to refer to that BOE letter and report it".

  Monday will finish up with the Defence witness, Mr. Burns and possibly Mr. Mark's rebuttal witness. Then the remainder of the day will be Mr. Mark's summary and Tuesday will be Defence's summary.

  Had Enough
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  26

  NEWSPAPERS - VICKI BOER ABUSE CASE - SEP 18

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  well we have the toronto sun today reporting yesterday's testimony.

  so 1 million more people will read the what vicki's psychiatrist said.. also note what the 3rd elder who was in the confrontation stated below.

  seems he believed that the other elders had dealt with the issue.

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  Had Enough

  Hi hawk - you JW look-alike

  I'm really glad you are in contact with Vicki and Scott so much and can give them your support on a regular basis.

  I have been absolutely fascinated the days I have been there-haven't found it boring at all. To see it so well documented (the letters to and from the WTS etc) how the WTS and elders had behaved in this case, just gives so much more to ammunition to beat down the lame prostestations coming from avid JWs. Their cries of "the WTS has a strong policy in place to help the victim" and "JW always look after the children" are being shown up for what they truly are....just blowing alot of wind.

  I have found each day there to be fascinating to see them trip and stumble over their own words and their true colours exposed. Why is it so hard for them to explain the WTS policies? Because they are unexplanable...they keep changing....they're ambiguous...and when an elder is trying to explain them, he and the WTS come off looking like fools.

  Thanks for the info on when the summary is expected. I'm trying to arrange my work schedule to be there again tomorrow and glad that might be the summary day. I'm disappointed that I couldn't get away from work to be there everyday...but I'm grateful for the days I could get there. To see the support Vicki is getting from her husband is heartwarming. He's warm, bright and on the ball with all the facts of what the WTS said and did, and they both are a delight to talk with.

  Thanks again

  Had Enough
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  10

  Francois taught me a bad habit!

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a couple of weeks ago, francois recommended imbibing tyrells long flat red, and i must admit, i did.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35848&site=3

  the strange thing is, tonight mrs ozzie and i wanted to have a mild celebration about the 'sunday' programme, so we stopped off at the apostates restaurant, and guess which wine i took along to celebrate with?

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  Had Enough

  G'Day Ozzie:

  Well I must say, the title of your thread had me wondering what you were up to now!

  I glad to see it is a good "bad habit".

  I enjoy your wine reviews and when I had dinner out with friends a couple days ago, I tried a glass (yes ONLY a glass as I had to drive home) of Australian Shiraz (can't remember the actual name of it though). It was absolutely delightful....something about mulberries. I'll have to go back to that restaurant just to find out what kind it was.

  Thanks for sharing your 'expertise' with us, Ozzie and to Francois for teaching you his bad habits.

  Had Enough
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  26

  NEWSPAPERS - VICKI BOER ABUSE CASE - SEP 18

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  well we have the toronto sun today reporting yesterday's testimony.

  so 1 million more people will read the what vicki's psychiatrist said.. also note what the 3rd elder who was in the confrontation stated below.

  seems he believed that the other elders had dealt with the issue.

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  Had Enough

  I have to admit that at the beginning of the trial, I wondered if the WTS and the elders would end up smelling like a rose, coming across as concerned, spiritual, moral and highly-principled men whose only concern was doing all possible to help Vicki.

  But from the couple of days I've been able to see them in action and read these added details, they are far from smelling like a rose. In fact, they don't smell very good at all.

  It is really satisfying to see the the horribly demeaning tactics they use against women being exposed, along with the way they hide facts or attempt to gloss them over to cover the ugliness of their attitudes.

  Like 'needs_lots' says, they have made it crystal clear that they blame everyone else BUT the abuser and their primary concerns have proved to be "save the sinner" and "protect the image of the congregation and the WTS".

  It is no wonder that elders have been resigning their positions in droves. Now we just need the rest of the r&f to be able to put 2+2 together and actually get the right answer...and not the "new math" LOL

  Had Enough